Foul?
By J Lou Section: Basketball
Posted on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:54:58 PM EST

Plunk has more of a post game break down coming

(probably when he gets over his hangov.....errr out of his Easter service)

but in the meantime, the in between time, this is killing me:

This is a little interesting isn't it?

From the LA Times:

After Collison's final layup gave UCLA a 51-49 lead and after an Aggies timeout, Sloan, a 6-3 guard, drove into the lane and pulled up for the shot. It was knocked away by Shipp and afterward Sloan said he was still waiting for an official's whistle.

"I went up to take the shot," Sloan said, "and I felt maybe a couple of arms pulling me down. I just knew for sure I was going to get a foul call because, hey, everybody could see what it was. And to my surprise they didn't make the call. That kind of shocked me."

Shipp said he made a clean play and Love, who was originally given credit for the block, said he was not surprised there was no whistle.

"It was a tough call and at the end of games sometimes, and this sounds hypocritical after the Stanford game, but you can't call stuff at the end if there's not a lot of contact."

Love was referencing UCLA's Pacific 10 Conference regular-season clinching win over Stanford that was sent to overtime when Lawrence Hill was called for a foul while blocking a last-second shot by Collison.

I hate to spoil a great game with this cheap "what if" talk, but as an Aggie fan, that is a lot of contact Kevin.

Not that it matters, Sloan only hits 67% from the line, plus we would have had to survive overtime, and our offense was starting to sputter, and Love and Collison were taking over.

But still interesting. Thoughts?


'
Display:

like they say

you can't blame a game on foul calls.  I try not to.  We shouldn't have blown our 10 point lead.  But yes, it is ridiculous.  But everyone knows(or it's just me) that refs don't call a lot of falls in the last 10 seconds.  The SECOND the game is over, they're out of there and never ever have to think about it again so, they're done.  

Like any basketball call(or really any sport) it's much easier to tell in slow mo or in a pic.  At full speed when it happened, did most of us really KNOW it was a foul.  It sure looked like it but no one I was with really knew for sure.  

I thought a lot of the blocks that K love had in the last 10 minutes or so were NOT clean.  At all.  He seemed to get a lot of good graces.  But at the same time, in the first half, it seemed like they got a lot of travels and other stuff on them that was probably questionable.  

Like I said, you can't blame it on the fouls and if we did, we should watch the entire game, review every single shot, reach in, etc, and see who got the edge.  But that's impossible.  We shouldn't have gone 6+ minutes without a FG.  That's what f'ed us.  

Sucks though.  That win would've been a bigger win that Gillespie ever had (IMO).  Oh well, I feel like we got a lot of respect out of it.  A lot of other teams were rooting for us.(a rarity)
I think Turgeon might have shown what he's going to be capable of with his own guys....

-carsondude

by carsondude on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 05:21:12 PM EST


That's class

I hope my reaction would be as calm and rational as yours after such a bad non-call. I agree with you about looking at the whole 40 minutes, of course, but if the situations were reversed, I'd be tempted to rant about it. You all personify class and sportsmanship. Hat's off.

by UCLA81 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 02:30:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]


The Last Play

Lets just say I hope that wasn't the play Turgeon drew up.  Sloan to the hole trying to shoot over four players.  Really?  I mean I like the idea of dribble penetration, but we are trusting Sloan to make a great decision with the game on the line.  His decision making has been inconsistent at best throughout the season and we are trusting him on the last shot?  Sure he played a good game this time and he hasn't been that bad since the Big 12 Tourney.  But the fact is, our last shot was taken over four defenders.  Carter was sitting on the three point line to Sloan's right (the best place to be for a right handed point guard) and the posts actually had their hands up ready for a pass (one of the few times all season).  So I like penetration, but I hope it was drawn up a little different in Turgeon's mind.  Or maybe it was just poor decision making by Sloan.  If the right decisions are made, whether or not someone fouled Sloan is irrelevant.

by CoachDale on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 06:21:00 PM EST


last play

I read Turge's comments somewhere regarding the last play. We wanted Sloan to drive and dish. Ideally using Josh as a decoy and having Kirk take the final shot. Turge didn't want to play for the tie, he wanted to win it right there in the final seconds. Sloan felt he had a good look at the time and took the shot. As Sloan got stopped, Kirk was popping out to the left wing. I like that idea on paper. Not likely we would have won in OT.

by J Lou on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 01:15:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]


from ESPN.com

The Aggies had planned to go for a 3-pointer on their final play, with Dominique Kirk as the shooter and Carter as the decoy. But that didn't develop.

"I was going to run out of here with a one-point win," Turgeon said. "Sloan just went a little too quick, but he was feeling good about himself and thought he could get to the basket."

by J Lou on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 01:20:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]


Drive and Dish

There's no doubt drive and dish is the best play.  The only part I don't like is Sloan.  Based on past performance and how horrible we look with the shot clock under 10 seconds Sloan on the drive and dish is shaky at best.  

With that being said, if Turgeon is going for the win, Kirk and Carter have to be outside.  Our only other option is Sloan to the goal looking for the dish.

Both shooters were open and the posts had position for rebounds if the ball had only gotten to the rim.

by CoachDale on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:24:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]


As an outsider...

I won't hold back.  I understand why you guys are saying what you are, so you don't sound whiny, but I'll go ahead and say it.

Y'all got f***.

The whole "don't call it late unless it's blatant" stuff is crap.  If it's a foul one minute in, it's a foul with one minute (or less) to go.  I'm not saying call every little touch, but if you've been consistently calling a certain amount of contact, you have to call it no matter how little time is left.  And that amount of contact is always a foul.

We'll carry the banner high!

by TB on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 10:57:34 PM EST


Kevin Love = pulling guard

I was more amazed that Love was allowed to act as a pulling guard on Collison's layups...but they made 4 HUGE shots down the stretch and that is what won the game.  That is the difference b/w all-americans and 3 star players.

by Plunk on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 10:20:03 AM EST


Reason why Collison Got to the Goal

I didn't think Love's screens were all that illegal.  Were they perfect?  No, but none of ours were either.  We set so many moving screens, I hope the officials never start calling them.

However, that had nothing to do with how Collison got to the goal on the last two plays.  A&M changed the way they were defending the pick and roll, and Turgeon did the right thing by changing.  On the previous two plays Love set the screen for Collison and the A&M post defending Love "showed hard".  This keeps Collison from the basket while giving the A&M guard defending Collison a chance to get through the screen.  The downside is Collison quickly reverses the ball while Love rolls to the weakside block.  The wing then dumps the ball to Love in the post before the A&M defender who "showed hard" on the screen can get back to front Love.  At this point A&M is dead because Love is too good with the ball in his hands.

After the timeout, A&M changed the way it defended the pick and roll in order to stop Love in the post.  Love sets the pick and roll and his defender "squeezes" the screen.  This means he gets as close to Love as possible in order to give room to the A&M player defending Collison to go underneath the screen.  Doing this allows A&M to front Love and deny him the ball throughout the play.  However, Collison is so fast it is difficult to defend him once he turns the corner.  UCLA keeps two good shooters on the wing so you can't help off with your wings.  The only player that can help is the person defending the weakside post that stands in the short corner.  If that player is a half step slow (and he was both times) Collison has an easy layup.

Turgeon was just trying to mix it up and force UCLA to make a play.  They did.  There are only three teams in the country that have good enough guards and posts to run this play so well:  UCLA, Carolina, and Kansas.  Notice all three are number one seeds and Kansas killed us on the pick and roll both times they played us.  Just my thoughts on the defense in the last few minutes of the ball game.

by CoachDale on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:35:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]


J Lou

Congratulations on a great season and a hellava game.  Your post is definitely a pleasant change from the usual whining after a team suffers a tough loss.  If you represent Aggies fans even by a mere fraction, then you guys are one of the classiest schools and fans around.  

See you in the dance next year (same bracket or not.)  Hats off to the Aggies.    

Regards,
Rich, UCLA '96

by Rich1996UCLA on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 01:14:31 PM EST


Seriously...

we got jobbed.  there were so many non-calls that should haven ended in free throws, but we still didnt make enough shots down the stretch.  lets hope DJ stays another and really improves.

by Benz18 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 05:15:31 PM EST


PTI Yesterday

We got some love on that show and ultimately Wilbon said we were robbed and Kornheiser said we were being ridiculous.  Good times.

by FutuePants on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:39:03 PM EST


The "foul"

I have posted some video and photo evidence about the last play of the game here.

It should prove once and for all that no foul should have been called.

by BobTheBruin on Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 01:43:34 PM EST


call it like it is...

Bob - you're an idiot... whether it was 2 mins left or 2 seconds, that was clearly a foul both on the elbow and across the wrists where Shipp actually had a hold of his one arm. Granted Sloan would have had to make the free throws to change the outcome but it should have been called and anyone trying to justify that its not a foul needs to STFU.

Unfortunately, Sloan should have never got that deep in the lane. The Aggies needed to shoot for the win there as UCLA clearly had the momentum and overtime wasn't where the Aggies needed to be. Why Turgeon wanted Kirk to shoot the 3 though I have no clue, Kirk was 0-4 from behind the arc for the game. In that spot I want my best player taking the shot, even if the D knows he's going to take the shot... and that should definitely have been Carter taking the three.

by tamu1991 on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 04:22:17 PM EST


Primary Option

I am like you are, I want my best player taking the shot in the closing minutes.  However, Sloan did have five options during the play.  Pass to Carter, Kirk, either post player, or shoot.  With Sloan being the one making the decision, above is the order I would like to see them in.  We can see which decision Sloan went with.

by CoachDale on Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 09:38:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]